Overcoming Hurts in Church

Today we have Rachel Francis in conversation with Pastor Priji on how to handle hurts in church, and in the process how to grow and achieve our God given potential to the full.

Transcript:

Pastor Priji: Greetings in Jesus name. Welcome to church talk podcast. We are really excited to have our dear friend Rachel Francis here with us this morning. I believe this conversation is going to be a blessing to you. Welcome here Rachel. Could you take a moment to greet our listeners and also share as to where God has brought you in the last few decades and where you are now.

Rachel Francis: Thank you for having me. I have served in a church for 13 years now and I found this community when I was 19 years. They really saved my life. God really facilitated that through them. I have grown to receive love and give love as a family. God has healed so many aspects of my relationships, my perception of the church and through that now I feel that I can really rest and serve with an ease and receive love with an ease. I do different roles in the church but what I would like to say is that it’s great to be part of God’s family.

Pastor Priji: What would be your recommendation for somebody who is like hurt by the church and going through the process of being away from God because of what church is doing and what church has done in the past?

Rachel Francis: It’s a very sensitive thing to talk about. From my experience, there has been ways where church has really wounded me. I would like to say that a lot of wounding comes through relationships and also a lot of healing comes through relationships. For me all my healing has come through relationship. If you have been in a place where the church had hurt you, I would like to say “SORRY” that the church hurt you and that you were not treated well. If you have been through abuse and rejection I would like to say “SORRY”. I think the church needs to learn to say “SORRY”. Because we are humans, we have somehow not treated people well and we have covered up abuse. It’s a responsibility of a leader, for me to acknowledge that; I wanted to encourage people who have been hurt that we are praying for you, we need you and we hope and pray that you find a community that loves you. I was that person, and I am so grateful to God that I found that community.
I acknowledge your pain; I know there is healing and there are communities and that you are going to find one.

Pastor Priji: Just because some of them have been bad, doesn’t mean all of them are bad, it doesn’t mean that God’s love for you have been reduced. Because sometimes when we look at hurt or abuse they directly equate it with the God whom they worship. And we say if this is the God we worship and if this is the character that we bring through then we don’t want to anything with this God. Inspite of what you are going through, God is love, He is the author of grace and mercy.

Rachel Francis: There are so many communities that are channeling the love of God in a healthy way. There are lot of them.

Pastor Priji: I want to know something, for somebody who is looking for a church in this process of having been hurt and looked down upon in the past. What are the markers that they can look into church; this is the church where I can grow, where I can be taught, where I can be loved, where I can achieve God given potential to the full?

Rachel Francis: Firstly, God. The way the Holy Spirit is leading you. The Lord will speak. The way a community treat a person that cant give them anything. A church which is a family, you don’t have to earn your stay there and it is not your potential that gives you the right to stay a part of it. When you are accepted for who you are but also you are not enabling sin or abuse of any form; I would say these two things for sure and definitely that believes in the word of God and hosting His presence, honors every single person no matter what economic status they come from; this is from what I have seen and learn. Community is never easy, it’s hard but it’s holy and God ordained. A place where you are get to know a person and where they get to know you in the context of how God see’s you, where you are challenged, and disciplined because they don’t want you to perish; the way they treat women and children

Pastor Priji: Our past hurt can sometimes become a barrier to someone who is genuinely showing love, someone who is interested in my life. I may find it hard to open up and be vulnerable and in a way prevent them from ministering to me. I may build a wall around us even when we find a community, where we say this far I will allow, this far I will give, do or serve. So, what would you suggest to somebody who is struggling with the past hurt and not being able to connect with the present community?

Rachel Francis: I am so glad you asked me this. It comes down to what Bangalore Revival Center carries. I would say Read the data. When I am in a church, I wouldn’t share everything with everyone. I would take time and that’s how God ordains it. Once you see someone loves for you in a consistent manner, maybe there is something . When someone is loving you with diligence, committed to you over a period of time, read the data maybe give it a second thought. You can’t really force someone to heal or open up but I pray that we as a church will be able to love people with diligence and consistency without manipulation, the way Jesus does, where we can take time to open up and receive.

Pastor Priji: On the other side when I think about our leaders who are on the giving side, they are not equipped to handle everything, there are issues that are brought out, abuses that are mentioned; we don’t feel qualified to address the issue, sometimes we withdraw from the person, we have a judgmental attitude. What advise would you give to the leaders who really want to help and serve and love; how would Jesus help someone; what would Jesus model be of helping somebody coming from an abused environment.

Rachel Francis: We need to admit that we don’t know how to solve every trauma. Especially for me, part of my story is that I was abused as a child and God brought a lot of healing through past 8 years. I have spoken to over 50,000 students of how abuse has no power over them and their future. I have come across a lot of people, men and women who have been abused and they have shared it with me; I know that God is going to bring healing and I am going to facilitate that. All healing comes from His throne. Getting professional help is something that is important and we as a church should explore this in a way that is led by the Holy Spirit and ministered by people that are filled by the Holy Spirit. God works in so many different ways, there is process, moments, kairos and all these things; looking at things in a holistic way.

Pastor Priji: Sometimes we really underestimate the value of professional help. We think that we are anointed, carriers of God’s word and that nobody can add to it. That’s why Paul says we are a body, we need the hands, feet, organs that are hidden; when we learn to acknowledge that there are other parts of the body and that we may need some external help; It is definitely mature to seek help or go out seeking for help.

Rachel Francis: I could share like, oh, even over the past few years you know one of the reasons why I have even been able to grow in my understanding or different aspects is because I have been to glean from different churches. You know and I feel like sometimes what you said is so powerful is that definitely there are some some aspects of the manifestation of God. That I need to receive from other churches, yeah you know, and I think that’s… that’s a key for sure.

Pastor Priji: Yeah, that’s very necessary I feel that you know sometimes we that Elijah attitude that says “I am the only one, there’s nobody else worshipping God.. nobody else doing this right, only I know how to you know answer this and the more we understand that the church is not just one tiny church, but its the body of Christ. It becomes so easier to co-operate and to learn and receive . Rachel from your experience like when somebody wants to serve within the church and they have been part of a church sometime and they want to serve in a church um… what are some of the things that you feel we need to personally work on before we begin to or desire to serve in the church? Because I have seen that lot of people come into the church serve with a lot of expectations and then sometimes those expectations are not met and sometimes they are not appreciated enough, sometimes they don’t get the stage the way they thought they would and the you know the at the time that they thought they would and so, how do we manage those expectations, even in our own head before we try to serve? What should be a motivation serve, especially in the context of a local church.

Rachel Francis: I would say when I came when I was 19. I was really broken teenager and I so wanted to solve. I was like I am ready to do this and that but you know I actually, just needed to receive and I mean ..uh… what I mean by that is when you know when you are , we have to really figure out our motives for serving too, like why do we want to serve? And sometimes that could be one aspects that I feel like talking about is that you know, it makes me uncomfortable when I have nothing to give. It makes me feel ,maybe it makes me feel useless, maybe it makes me feel like I don’t have any worth and if your worth comes from the fact that you are serving ,well yeah; you know then you then you will never receive and I am so grateful and which is why even to anyone that’s like young and listening or you know even someone who’s just joined church like enjoy the generosity of God and receive . Maybe there’s this season season. The way we want you to serve is just receive the love, fullness, wholeness that the body carries and let us just love you and I think that’s the most powerful thing like when you are and you have just met the Lord and you have found this community is to be like okay, I am here , and this is my home. And of course, I will serve but it’s not because of my serving that it’s my home. So I think really understanding like comes down to identity , just like I am a Daughter of this home and you know
I think when start serving from a place of I am a Daughter, and I will serve . Oh! I am a Son! You know and I will serve , then it doesn’t ,matter what you do ,how you do, who sees it whatever it doesn’t matter . You just take ownership of it and it’s not like if your worth is not coming how you are serving and how it’s received , then you are just able to serve with so much ease and it does not matter . You know it doesn’t matter if I am doing a role for like the next 10 years like for me right now I feel like I am you know transitioning for out of worship leading. So, I might do it for maybe another year but I think like God’s taking me into something else and if I get into this mode but God like this is you know you are using me here etc. Then you know that becomes an idol. It becomes again this need to kind of “Be the Saviour” and be like, No God let me tell me tell you how I am gonna bless the earth and God’s like No! you did your job, that was an assignment right. So, whatever role that God has called us in you know just embracing that and recognising that for me the one most beautiful seasons was, a vulnerable thing to be like, okay; I don’t have much to give you this community right now because i need the healing. So, receiving that healing and then from that identity of knowing my worth in this community is just because of who I AM. The way I serve will be effortless because it will not matter. So, I think that would be just like going back to the motive of it and recognising that maybe you wanna serve because you don’t feel worthy of the love that people are giving you .

Pastor Priji: Wow! That’s really powerful and if we get that sorted out then we can serve with a light heart, with a clean heart, with a clear mind. Rachel, you have been in the church for so long and you have been blessing the church with your presence, with your you know your ministry, with your worship leading and even with your desire to write songs and how the Lord has used you in that area. So, give us a encouragement for those who want to create content for the body of Christ. Some of them may be preachers, some of them may be just songwriters or just do things that will add value to the body of Christ. It could be just a video that they want to produce a movie that they wanna make . How can we do it in such a way that it is going to bless the church and not just necessarily make me famous to the church or make me more attractive to the church ,it’s not just about me but it’s about the message that God has given me and how can this be a blessing to the church ,you know in general beyond my four walls ,beyond my community how can it be a blessing to the church.

Rachel Francis: I would say something that I have been learning and God’s been teaching me is that ignore perception completely that’s my take on it. What I mean by that is not to take feedback but we are here you know , We are before the throne room. Like that is our posture. So, people can look at content a certain way and there are metrics and algorithms and that’s great and again like I don’t wanna..there’s a lot of shame around that too, you know like a lot of people assume that oh! you are making content you are just making it for you know because you wanna be famous and things like so, definitely break that shame in the name of Jesus. But also recognize that we are doing it for the throne like it’s for him right. So the ways in which people perceive me and perceive and my music or perceive my content is not something which i have to take on my shoulders. I just have to obey God and do what he is telling me to do and I think like, if I continue to do that with diligence you know if i continue to do that then it becomes something more sacred than just you know it becomes something very sacred. So it doesn’t really matter I know a lot of people now I guess know me because of my songs but the ways in which God is leading me I don’t if i will you know have those metrics in the future or etc. And i don’t ever wanna base my art or anything i do on hey how will people receive it , like that is just you don’t wanna go that down road so much more because you carry the presence of God. So i just need to release it and just know that whether its two people or five people i am going to kneel and whatever that kneeling looks like in terms of my art i am gonna release that , its for the throne room , its on the internet but its for the throne room. It’s for Him, so just resting in that right people’s perception or the amount of influence or the scale of it does not give it its worth , it doesn’t it absolutely does not. And that’s not easy for us its not easy even in the christian culture. Because we have equated influence with character we have equated influence with God saying Yep its Him we have equated it and i think God is healing that relationship with how we see influence and what it means because to me you know i believe that so that’s how i see it i am like this art is for you like this is for you God its communion between you and me. And if people like it great and if they don’t like it maybe its not for this generation maybe some of the content you are making right now is not for this generation , maybe its for the coming generation. so having that perspective is not easy but when you sit in his presence and when your everything that you are making and doing becomes for like its for Him it becomes easier it shed those the tyranny of perception. So that would be my advice.

Pastor Priji: Wow!! that’s really really powerfull Rachel to get away from you know what people will , how people will respond and what they will say and what will they do to celebrate or to reject your content. That sometime drive our creativity and that’s so wrong its so good that you mentioned that the throne room has to be our audience, your motivation to create any kind of content.
Thank you so much being on this podcast i would really love for you to just pray for our listeners and just speak whatever the Lord has put on your heart .Many of our listeners are our Pastors, Leaders and young church planters and we want to have a culture in our churches that really honour the Lord, that builds a community that represents the body of Jesus so just speak a word and just pray for us.

Rachel Francis: Thank you for having me . Just Grateful even for this podcast and i am just so grateful for what God is doing you know in the earth in Bangalore and so God i just thank you for everyone who is listening in and i thank you God that in the midst of all the fear that’s happening everywhere in different places i thank you that this is the greatest time to have ever lived because it is your God that you are going to release more than has been ever been released in the Past. More of your Goodness, Justice, Love and i pray that you will come in alignment with you and everything we do it would come in alignment with you no matter what it looks like . I just feel led to pray for against fear, for everybody that is listening from wherever whatever role you are playing in church. I just Break Off Fear, Fear off us in the name of Jesus. Fear of our leaderships. I pray that we would rest in your arms God and allow and allow you to lead us even right now i thank you God that you are a healer. And in this year God that we will see more of your healing than ever before , that we will see more of your justice than ever before i just pray for every young person that is shakily trying to do something. God i pray that they will find communities that are able to serve their vision. I pray that there would be communities just like this one that would host God your presence and be able to honor you and each other father. I just pray for every young church planter God I pray that we would be so rooted in you and i just declare this word that that i sense is that the seed that dies and than becomes roots . I Thank you God for every single one of us in the way we serve you and the way we what we make that we are the origin of Forests and we are creating a landscape and its underneath and whatever is happening on top are people’s perceptions of us and it doesn’t matter because we are in the underground and God I pray that we would these roots system God would go deep father and every seed would go deep and we would change the landscape from the underground and i pray we would settle in and have a sense of ease that God the what we are doing truly people will never see and that’s okay because they can never see what you are doing through us God. So God i pray that we would become that seed that dies and goes deep and creates an environment for rainforest to flourish thank you God and lastly that we would as a body understand that our root systems need to connect with each other there will be interconnectedness that every isolation would be broken. Let there be interconnectedness to connect with each other and creates an environment where we can call this generation into your fold.
Amen.

Pastor Priji: Amen! thank you so much Rachel. If our listeners need to connect with you what’s the best way they can connect with you on social media or email or how or what is the best way they can connect with you.

Rachel Francis: Yeah, I am on Instagram and @rachel_s_francis is my handle.

Pastor Priji: So amazing, i will leave the link for that in the show notes. Thank you once again for being on this Podcast. We are really really blessed by your experiences and how the Lord has brought you so far.

Friends if you are blessed make sure to let us know leave a comment and make sure to head to our telegram channel and engage in the conversation there and we would love to see and know what God is doing in your church and in your ministry. Thank you for tuning in we will see you again next month with the another episode on the church talk podcast.